2017 GTi PP at VIR

[Navi]

AMS IC & CSF Install

There is a big difference in the amount of clearance between the IE & AMS IC. Both units appear to be well made. There is only one way to install the IC. This is not a complicated install. The IC location is fixed by the mounting brackets in the radiator support. The photos illustrate the increased clearance with the AMS IC vs. the IE IC. I have been in touch with the CSF factory in California, their test car was an R with an IE IC. They tell me that their European office has sold radiators fitted to FWD GTi’s running IE IC’s. This combination unfortunately did not work out for me. I did not do anything different on my second install. I made some detail changes regarding the harness routing and shortening the chassis rail bolt.

Hope this is helpful for other folks who track there cars on a regular basis or for those who run in hot ambients And want to run both upgraded IC & the CSF radiator.

Stay Healthy Folks!!

where's my commission?

 

[victorofhavoc]

Looking good! Dig the louvres.

I bought an oil cooler kit. and have a 19-row Setrab cooler to install.

thanks for the VAQ info. That’s on my maintenance list as well.

Thanks!
Which kit did you get?

Slight tangent - anyone ever play with the steering assistance values on the track? I've always hated the light steering feel (even the value for "sport" mode felt light) so I was changing the values yesterday, all the way from 100% to off. I found they 50-60% was a nice compromise

I just saw these settings today and was planning on messing with them a bit. Good to know they actually do something and don't just lock the steering wheel up.

 

[victorofhavoc]

Nope. Didn’t know it was an option.

Been more concerned with brake feel and the influence of XDS with VAQ perfo

On the note if brake feel. I did the booster turn down and as the pads got lower I started hating the feel and got super inconsistent pedal feel on track. I turned it back up and things seemed to get better, but the draw length is shorter. I just upped the offset to see if I can keep the pressure but lengthen the draw. We'll see this weekend. Turning off straight ahead brake stabilization was pretty crucial to eliminating xds interaction, especially at high speeds.

 

[q74]

AMS IC & CSF Install

The Link to my initial attemp with the IE IC for reference: https://golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/2017-gti-pp-at-vir.351754/post-7406654

Second attempt to get the CSF Radiator to fit with an aftermarket intercooler. This time with an AMS intercooler. The following photos are after installing the AMS IC & CSF radiator.
The only change made was to remove the IC charge pipe and re-route the main engine harness underneath it. Previously the harness was touching the center of the fan shroud (with a reroute higher up & over the top of the IC charge pipe). Another detail change was to shorten the RHS (passenger) frame rail to bumper mounting bolt as it came very close to the AC lines.

1. Engine Harness rerouted under the IC charge pipe & secondary air tube. Zip tied the harness over the starter solenoid.
View attachment 174633

2. Reposition the rub protection donut. Both IC plastic carge pipes no longer touch the fan shroud. Upper radiator hose clearance is now 12-15mm from the fan shroud.

View attachment 174634

3. Lower IC charge pipe no longer touches the fan shroud.

View attachment 174635View attachment 174636View attachment 174637

I do not have a good picture but the IC charge pipe to the throttle body also has clearance to the fan shroud, whereas before it was touching. You can see the pipe leading up to the TB below.
View attachment 174640

4. I shortened the chassis rail to bumper mounting bolt - lower inside corner to clear the AC line

View attachment 174638
View attachment 174639


5. Sealed the gap between the CSF radiator and the fan shroud. I used some 3M AC aluminum duct tape.
View attachment 174641


There is a big difference in the amount of clearance between the IE & AMS IC. Both units appear to be well made. There is only one way to install the IC. This is not a complicated install. The IC location is fixed by the mounting brackets in the radiator support. The photos illustrate the increased clearance with the AMS IC vs. the IE IC. I have been in touch with the CSF factory in California, their test car was an R with an IE IC. They tell me that their European office has sold radiators fitted to FWD GTi’s running IE IC’s. This combination unfortunately did not work out for me. I did not do anything different on my second install. I made some detail changes regarding the harness routing and shortening the chassis rail bolt.

Hope this is helpful for other folks who track there cars on a regular basis or for those who run in hot ambients And want to run both upgraded IC & the CSF radiator.

Stay Healthy Folks!!

Your clearance looks about the same as mine. For whatever its worth, I finally had first track day of the year this past weekend, first time with AMS and CSF combo. Here's my findings;

Despite still being on stock engine mounts, there was no problems on or off track (no visible chaffing, damage, rubbing, pipes did not come off, etc). We'll see how it holds up over time though ofc.

Ambient temp was 77f at track, oil temps held at comfortable level (255f peak, 245f average), but while safe still not happy with coolant temps (227f peak, 215f average). The IAT temps were quite good though, really impressed (92f peak, 82f average). Curious what coolant and oil would look on a hotter 80->90f day. Stock tune, 6MT, Golf R.

I'm super curious to hear what sort of results you get.

 

[Mini7]

where's my commission?

Thanks! You will have to come down to VIR to collect.

 

[Mini7]

Your clearance looks about the same as mine. For whatever its worth, I finally had first track day of the year this past weekend, first time with AMS and CSF combo. Here's my findings;

Despite still being on stock engine mounts, there was no problems on or off track (no visible chaffing, damage, rubbing, pipes did not come off, etc). We'll see how it holds up over time though ofc.

Ambient temp was 77f at track, oil temps held at comfortable level (255f peak, 245f average), but while safe still not happy with coolant temps (227f peak, 215f average). The IAT temps were quite good though, really impressed (92f peak, 82f average). Curious what coolant and oil would look on a hotter 80->90f day. Stock tune, 6MT, Golf R.

I'm super curious to hear what sort of results you get.

I am way more comfortable with the current setup. This combination has significantly more wiggle room than before. Thank you for posting on my thread. Between you and Navi, I decided to go this route.
My next 2 scheduled track events are in November, but I will likely sign up for something in September /October or sooner. I can provide some real world feedback then.

I’m on a low torque APR tune so that will be rejecting more heat from the IS20. Most probably similar to your IS38 on a stock tune. Similar power levels/heat generation.

Your fluid temps were decent considering the 77F ambient. My hope is that this CSF radiator will provide the additional headroom capacity to keep things in check on 90F ambients.

Cruising on the highway I’m seeing 207F with the AC off and 217-219F with it on. Which is about the same as before but this is not a true indication of what the cooling system is capable of.

When bleeding the cooling system, I was surprised how hot the AC coil got when turning the AC on. Then how cold it got when you turned the heat on.

 

[Mini7]

Thanks!
Which kit did you get?

I just saw these settings today and was planning on messing with them a bit. Good to know they actually do something and don't just lock the steering wheel up.

Gordan, I got a racing line kit. But I will be using a Setrab cooler. It is more compact. I drilled the initial two holes but that front bumper is super hard steel. That is going to take some time and patience just to drill the holes. Didn’t want to get sidetracked on the oil cooler install while getting the IC/CSF buttoned up. Thought I would mark everything up for the oil cooler install while I had the front clip off.

 

[victorofhavoc]

Gordan, I got a racing line kit. But I will be using a Setrab cooler. It is more compact. I drilled the initial two holes but that front bumper is super hard steel. That is going to take some time and patience just to drill the holes. Didn’t want to get sidetracked on the oil cooler install while getting the IC/CSF buttoned up. Thought I would mark everything up for the oil cooler install while I had the front clip off.

Yeah it took me a while to get through the bumper! I went through two drill bits before I realized with me on the ground in an upright position I just didn't have the leverage to put enough pressure into the drill bit. I ended up borrowing my wife to push on my back so I could give it more pressure. Looking back on it, it would have been smarter to just remove the crash beam as a whole and then work on it on the ground where I could put my weight behind it. Just a few tips, make sure you're using a proper drill bit for steel (my first one claimed it could, but it was an all purpose bit), use some motor oil for lubricant, turn the drill speed down to as low as possible, and if you see any smoke or sign of heat, stop immediately and let it cool. You should be able to punch through it in no time if you follow this method.

I'm still using the RL 10 row... Definitely need to upgrade to a 19 row.

 

[bfury5]

Thanks!
Which kit did you get?

I just saw these settings today and was planning on messing with them a bit. Good to know they actually do something and don't just lock the steering wheel up.

Yeah I actually prefer it. I tried turning it off completely and I was surprised to find that it actually turned the assist completely off. Less assist made the wheel feel more precise on center, or at least that was my impression.

 

[Gvazquez]

Looking good! Dig the louvres.

I bought an oil cooler kit. and have a 19-row Setrab cooler to install.

thanks for the VAQ info. That’s on my maintenance list as well.

Which oil cooler kit did you buy? I'm gonna piece mine together

 

[Gvazquez]

Nevermind just saw it in the thread. I was gonna do the same route and use racingline with a different cooler but the designated oil filter you have to use turned me off to it. I have another route I'm gonna try though

 

[RadioFlyer]

Nevermind just saw it in the thread. I was gonna do the same route and use racingline with a different cooler but the designated oil filter you have to use turned me off to it. I have another route I'm gonna try though

The VWR proprietary filter @ $50 each was a non-starter. I have been told they can be cleaned and reused, idk. Also heard a [unknown] Honda filter can be used.

 

[DarkArrow]

I know next to nothing about oil coolers, but if someone wouldn't mind entertaining my questions for me to learn.

If you're planning to use a different oil cooling radiator (is that what they're called?) than the one included with the Racingline kit, what's the benefit (if any) of using the Racingline kit than using something like the iAbed or KateCool adapter plate?

 

[victorofhavoc]

Nevermind just saw it in the thread. I was gonna do the same route and use racingline with a different cooler but the designated oil filter you have to use turned me off to it. I have another route I'm gonna try though

The VWR proprietary filter @ $50 each was a non-starter. I have been told they can be cleaned and reused, idk. Also heard a [unknown] Honda filter can be used.

I'm using a subaru filter on mine currently. The downside to the subaru filter is that the sandwich top from racingline is smooth top, so any time you unscrew the filter oil goes EVERYWHERE. I just wait a long time after draining and pad the area with paper towels before pulling the filter. I don't feel Comfortable with reusing their metal substrate filter because it uses a magnet. I might try to just extend filter use since I flush oil frequently.

I know next to nothing about oil coolers, but if someone wouldn't mind entertaining my questions for me to learn.

If you're planning to use a different oil cooling radiator (is that what they're called?) than the one included with the Racingline kit, what's the benefit (if any) of using the Racingline kit than using something like the iAbed or KateCool adapter plate?

What is your time worth? Fitting the iabed and Kate cool kits would take removing the entire front end of the car, the intake manifold, and quite a few other bits. Total time in would be at least 10 hrs in my estimation if you're pretty mechanically inclined and don't run into major issues and then about 5 hrs out. If you've never done this kind of work before I would triple that time. The packaging is also extremely tight in that area so your routing needs to be very careful. If you make a small mistake or the plate doesn't seal, then it's back in you go to figure out where the minor leak is that's throwing your low oil pressure warning . You also have the drawbacks of no thermostat so you have to run an online one or a manual bypass valve. Additionally the factory cooler system that's already there is designed to help get the oil hotter, faster so that you're not dealing with cold spark issues and water evaporates. On a dedicated track car, the iabed is the way to go, though.
On the racingline kit I had a tiny piece of paper towel (see reasons above why paper towels were involved) which led to an air leak that wasn't even big enough for oil to get through that led to a low oil pressure warning.

The racingline "heat exchanger" core is pretty tiny. It's designed for 60hp I believe, which on an engine that already has factory cooling issues is not enough.

 

[Navi]

The VWR proprietary filter @ $50 each was a non-starter. I have been told they can be cleaned and reused, idk. Also heard a [unknown] Honda filter can be used.

man the vwr set up is trash. I'm using only one piece from their whole kit. Just the billet adapter that converts the oem oil filter area to a standard oil filter setup. I replaced everything else on it. And yes you can use any filter you want.

here's a setrab hyperflow filter

and here are KN filters

can even use different kn filter sizes