Seat upgrades & safety rules

[tigeo]

Passed NASA Tech 3x since running Profi II 4-point with a Recaro Sportster. It's are also "expired" for FIA purposes. Had few chats with the techs, including the lead tech in my region and he passed them because the rear belt angle seems close to what Schroth say is within spec for these. I was fully transparent about the car not being on the Audi/VW list. Keep in mind I'm in an S3 and 5'8" so ymmv if you're taller/run mk7.

He did say the guy that runs local distribution for Schroth comes out as well so will have him opine next time we're both at an event.

Because that harness isn't like the QF that is vehicle specific...like the Rallye 4 these are generic. Angle per Schroth should be less than 45 degrees so yeah they should pass it.

 

[yakev724]

Because that harness isn't like the QF that is vehicle specific...like the Rallye 4 these are generic. Angle per Schroth should be less than 45 degrees so yeah they should pass it.

Ah yes you're totally right. That's actually why I bought it and not the quick fit originally.

 

[tigeo]

Ah yes you're totally right. That's actually why I bought it and not the quick fit originally.

The issue will be clubs that say your back strap angle can't be more than 10 or 20 even if Schroth says it's ok.

 

[Roald]

So based on my research w/r to the Schroth ASM DOT 4-point harnesses:

Quick Fit Pro. Has to be used in a vehicle it was tested in; Schroth has a list. This is to ensure the seat backs are strong enough (seat back strength test) to deal with the high-angle of the tail strap (45 degress+). Works with any HANS. Plugs into f/r seat belt female receptical so that the car thinks the belts are engaged which impacts how the air bags are deployed. I'm surpised they haven't released for the MK7, MK5 is the last one they certify it for but folks seem to miss this....

Quick Fit. Same as above but only a Hybrid S HANS is compatible.

Rallye 4. If your car isn't on the Quick Fit list. They state to not install where the down-angle of tail strap >45 degrees (I can't see now any smaller car won't have this angle) and if so...

Rallye 3. Same as above. Single tail strap mounts high (so zero to shallow angle) to the rear upper shoulder belt mounting point. I like this one actually the more I looked at these b/c the seat back strength issue is gone b/c of the angle but it stays installed with a disconnect so you can tuck it away in the rear/have passengers back there. Fronts could likely be tucked so that they were out of the way. I suppose you could just click your 3 point over it loosely to handle the seat belt/air bag bit. As I understand it if the car doesn't sense you have your belt on the air bag deployment force is different.

View attachment 297058

Really appreciate you guys having this conversation. This stuff doesn't get discussed much. And for someone without the experience the whole ecosystem is sort of overwhelming.

This looks to be very similiar to a gti, but I honestly have no idea what car this is that is pictured. Is this yours? or where did you get this pic?
I've been eyeballing some sort of harness for autocross since last year. I got to ride with some folks that have various harnesses and found a lot of benefit being more stable in the seat.

I am on a slightly different path in that this will be used to Autox exclusively. I have zero interested in using this on the street, and HDPE or track events are not in my future.
Originally I was looking at the quickfits because I like the idea of being able to pull the system out while not at AX.

The venues I run at also have very little chance of impact. They are very open lots without many barriers.
This is strictly to keep me planted in the seat. I am not a big dude by any stretch and I just don't fill the seat all that well.

However, seeing this thread and the research done has been eye opening. In my personal case the risk assessment is very low I think. But the safer option(rallye3) is actually less expensive, which is a definite benefit to me.

So my question is:
Will the Rallye 3 work properly in the MK7 GTI?
The "C" locations they mention might not work?
On my GTI the "C" location is the roller for the seat belt. I didn't pull the panel because it looks like a huge pain in the ass to get to.
I assume the roller is bolted in like the rest of the attachment points, but I am not 100%. And I'm not even sure if that's a useable anchor point. I suspect that at the very least you would need a longer bolt, and maybe to drill a hole in a panel.

Schroth mentions anchor point C would work like this-

But that isn't the type of attachment we have there.

They go on to explain that if C doesn't work then to use D or E, but to make sure the seat has been tested. At which point we are back at the quick fit issue.



In the end I think I end up back at the question of- Is the risk worth it?
Sure? If I am only using it for AutoX, my assessment is that the risk is very low. The quick fit would come out during normal use. Which would be better for my daily use of the car. It would just bug me a bit to know that I willingly installed something that is potentially less safe.

 

[DerHase]

Honestly for autocross, I've seen people use a friggin ratchet strap (well, the ones that you just pull to tighten, not actual ratcheting ones) around the seat and their chest. Works amazingly well, but looks ridiculous.

 

[Roald]

Honestly for autocross, I've seen people use a friggin ratchet strap (well, the ones that you just pull to tighten, not actual ratcheting ones) around the seat and their chest. Works amazingly well, but looks ridiculous.

I have a buddy that is using a 1" band of some sort that wraps around the back of his seat.
And while he likes it, I am not specifically a fan of it. But you're on point about what passes tech. AutoX seems to be pretty relaxed on this stuff.

Maybe I should look into a less expensive option

 

[tigeo]

Really appreciate you guys having this conversation. This stuff doesn't get discussed much. And for someone without the experience the whole ecosystem is sort of overwhelming.

This looks to be very similiar to a gti, but I honestly have no idea what car this is that is pictured. Is this yours? or where did you get this pic?
I've been eyeballing some sort of harness for autocross since last year. I got to ride with some folks that have various harnesses and found a lot of benefit being more stable in the seat.

I am on a slightly different path in that this will be used to Autox exclusively. I have zero interested in using this on the street, and HDPE or track events are not in my future.
Originally I was looking at the quickfits because I like the idea of being able to pull the system out while not at AX.

The venues I run at also have very little chance of impact. They are very open lots without many barriers.
This is strictly to keep me planted in the seat. I am not a big dude by any stretch and I just don't fill the seat all that well.

However, seeing this thread and the research done has been eye opening. In my personal case the risk assessment is very low I think. But the safer option(rallye3) is actually less expensive, which is a definite benefit to me.

So my question is:
Will the Rallye 3 work properly in the MK7 GTI?
The "C" locations they mention might not work?
On my GTI the "C" location is the roller for the seat belt. I didn't pull the panel because it looks like a huge pain in the ass to get to.
I assume the roller is bolted in like the rest of the attachment points, but I am not 100%. And I'm not even sure if that's a useable anchor point. I suspect that at the very least you would need a longer bolt, and maybe to drill a hole in a panel.
View attachment 297392


Schroth mentions anchor point C would work like this-
View attachment 297393
But that isn't the type of attachment we have there.

They go on to explain that if C doesn't work then to use D or E, but to make sure the seat has been tested. At which point we are back at the quick fit issue.



In the end I think I end up back at the question of- Is the risk worth it?
Sure? If I am only using it for AutoX, my assessment is that the risk is very low. The quick fit would come out during normal use. Which would be better for my daily use of the car. It would just bug me a bit to know that I willingly installed something that is potentially less safe.

If you have a GTI doing AutoX and want a harness, I'd do the QuickFit (no need for the Pro....that is just if you want to run a standard HANS) and mod the bracket to fit the driver outboard OE bolt. The Rally 3 should work but looks to be a PITA to remove all that interior bit to get to the upper rear shoulder mount. Rally 4 is basically the same as the QF but permanently installed. Have you tried just using the inertial belt lock like my video posted somewhere above on my Youtube shows? It can be VERY tight and will hold you in securely (shockingly so to me) - it did for me when I tried AutoX. Free and bonus no ratchet straps. Can also try the myriad of child seat locking gizmos to lock up the shoulder to lap belt.

 

[Roald]

If you have a GTI doing AutoX and want a harness, I'd do the QuickFit (no need for the Pro....that is just if you want to run a standard HANS) and mod the bracket to fit the driver outboard OE bolt. The Rally 3 should work but looks to be a PITA to remove all that interior bit to get to the upper rear shoulder mount. Rally 4 is basically the same as the QF but permanently installed. Have you tried just using the inertial belt lock like my video posted somewhere above on my Youtube shows? It can be VERY tight and will hold you in securely (shockingly so to me) - it did for me when I tried AutoX. Free and bonus no ratchet straps. Can also try the myriad of child seat locking gizmos to lock up the shoulder to lap belt.

Yeah the QuickFit seems to be the easiest to install option. Though the Rally 3 and even the OMP or Corbeau 3 point options, look decent enough. In fact the OMP and Corbeau are just cheaper versions. It's worth noting they are less safe. They lack the ASM tech it appears. Just not sure I am too worried about it. Unless we change venues which seems highly unlikely, this is exclusively to keep me from wiggling all over the place, and prevent me from bracing on the wheel.
I am still undecided.

I have tried various locking options. Thankfully folks in my region are nice enough to let me borrow or try out some of them.
And I've even tried the inertia hack/seat slide thing.
Just prefer the stability of the harness, and new seats are not in my future. I like my heated seats too much and and frankly too lazy to try to figure out a whole new seat.

 

[SierraCarrera]

Yeah the QuickFit seems to be the easiest to install option. Though the Rally 3 and even the OMP or Corbeau 3 point options, look decent enough. In fact the OMP and Corbeau are just cheaper versions. It's worth noting they are less safe. They lack the ASM tech it appears. Just not sure I am too worried about it. Unless we change venues which seems highly unlikely, this is exclusively to keep me from wiggling all over the place, and prevent me from bracing on the wheel.
I am still undecided.

I have tried various locking options. Thankfully folks in my region are nice enough to let me borrow or try out some of them.
And I've even tried the inertia hack/seat slide thing.
Just prefer the stability of the harness, and new seats are not in my future. I like my heated seats too much and and frankly too lazy to try to figure out a whole new seat.

Are you in the Columbus area? Happy to meetup and show you/let you try my setup with the QuickFit Pro, before I got those I had the Takata Drift III with the quick snaps, the rears were kinda sketchy as I had them attached to the car seat clips but the nice thing was I could still use my factory 3-point seatbelt on top of it for extra peace of mind (which is exactly what I did, even though it looked a bit silly).

 

[Roald]

Are you in the Columbus area? Happy to meetup and show you/let you try my setup with the QuickFit Pro, before I got those I had the Takata Drift III with the quick snaps, the rears were kinda sketchy as I had them attached to the car seat clips but the nice thing was I could still use my factory 3-point seatbelt on top of it for extra peace of mind (which is exactly what I did, even though it looked a bit silly).

I am. I run with the OVR scca group.
And since posting this, my wife got me the Quick for my birthday. So I am all set. I appreciate the offer!

 

[Nineeightyone]

Really appreciate you guys having this conversation. This stuff doesn't get discussed much. And for someone without the experience the whole ecosystem is sort of overwhelming.

This looks to be very similiar to a gti, but I honestly have no idea what car this is that is pictured. Is this yours? or where did you get this pic?
I've been eyeballing some sort of harness for autocross since last year. I got to ride with some folks that have various harnesses and found a lot of benefit being more stable in the seat.

I am on a slightly different path in that this will be used to Autox exclusively. I have zero interested in using this on the street, and HDPE or track events are not in my future.
Originally I was looking at the quickfits because I like the idea of being able to pull the system out while not at AX.

The venues I run at also have very little chance of impact. They are very open lots without many barriers.
This is strictly to keep me planted in the seat. I am not a big dude by any stretch and I just don't fill the seat all that well.

However, seeing this thread and the research done has been eye opening. In my personal case the risk assessment is very low I think. But the safer option(rallye3) is actually less expensive, which is a definite benefit to me.

So my question is:
Will the Rallye 3 work properly in the MK7 GTI?
The "C" locations they mention might not work?
On my GTI the "C" location is the roller for the seat belt. I didn't pull the panel because it looks like a huge pain in the ass to get to.
I assume the roller is bolted in like the rest of the attachment points, but I am not 100%. And I'm not even sure if that's a useable anchor point. I suspect that at the very least you would need a longer bolt, and maybe to drill a hole in a panel.
View attachment 297392


Schroth mentions anchor point C would work like this-
View attachment 297393
But that isn't the type of attachment we have there.

They go on to explain that if C doesn't work then to use D or E, but to make sure the seat has been tested. At which point we are back at the quick fit issue.



In the end I think I end up back at the question of- Is the risk worth it?
Sure? If I am only using it for AutoX, my assessment is that the risk is very low. The quick fit would come out during normal use. Which would be better for my daily use of the car. It would just bug me a bit to know that I willingly installed something that is potentially less safe.

So, I installed a Rallye3 for use with my RRX seats, though I used anchor point D as I believe it's under the 45 degree mark (but close). I installed to anchor point D, but with this informaton will likely investigate installation at point C and see what is necessary to make that work.

To be clear though, this is not a car that sees track time. The main reason for the installation was to get away from the sketchy placement of the stock lap belt with the Corbeau RRX seats, the Schroth unit places the belt in a better lap position. To the best of my research, it sounds like the RRX is a suitable seat, though I can't find the 'yellow pages' the Schroth website lists in order to be certain. In any case, YMMV, install at your own risk, etc.

I didn't need to modify the bracket for the outside lap belt connection at all, and the tailstrap connection only had to be bent to match the existing form of brackets/etc in that position. My stock belts are still intact. I was very iffy about drilling out the Schroth-provided brackets, and thankfully did not need to do so.

 

[Nineeightyone]

Update for posterity: I moved the mounting point to the seatbelt point for the back seat -- I did have to trim the C pillar trim a bit to allow everything to move nicely, and the side plastics need to be removed to get to it in the first place, but it IS doable. If I were a little better with the oscillating multitool, I think I could get it just about flush to the point where it'd be invisible. But it's still not awful IMO, and has a much higher angle. My seat is the whole way back and I'm 6'2 ~230lbs. The belt is definitely snug but works with these seats, though I wish I had a longer tailstrap (it's a little hard to see in photos but there's not much excess).