Apr just announced on Facebook....

[Geomets]

They now have new advances, so currently, if software is on the ECU (even if you have program switching) it can be found. The exception would be removing the software at an APR dealer.



Well, we're testing all of that now. We've had software for quite some time and have been bumping up the power as we go along. Now we're to the point where we're running it pretty wide open and hard, testing it on the autobahn at wide open throttle for lengthy periods of time and getting some track time too. We'll have our car in the desert pretty soon at a whole weekend track event.

Our car is loaded up with sensors and probes to measure EGT's, back pressure and whatever else the engineers feel is necessary to ensure it can take it. We even have extra analog sensors to ensure the information coming out of our high speed data logger is actually correct. We have access to every item within the ECU at high sample rates with many variables logging at once. Here is a photo of the probes, wires, and fire retardant wrap around other sensor leads (the ones sticking out of the top if the exhaust gas pressure sensor):

This data is very important. Ultimately it will help us to dictate where we end up with power. I have a motto for the calibrators, and it's Aggressive but not Risky. No one here wants them to take risks by overspinning or burning up turbos, or numbing knock sensors to get out a few more degrees of ignition advance. We also don't want to be too conservative such that you don't enjoy the software, but we do tend to take less "risks" up front without data to back our decisions to go further.

We'll arrive at a figure, backed up with data, and then we'll release it. After more lengthy long term testing, we'll likely bump up the power over the years and issue free updates. This will also come with more software development too. Sometimes we find way to make more power without being risky and often has nothing to do with being aggressive either. It typically comes with a greater knowledge of the system with more time working on it. This typically happens when we dig deeper into the code while developing our stage 3 kits, which are already up and running and will be on display at for a one of our special clients this weekend.



Yup! It's already showing a good gain. I'm not ready to share the results yet though. I'm holding off for now till I have our final calibration as the numbers will change with our requested output. Request more from the turbo (higher airflow requirements), and the gains between stock and our intake will increase.



Let me say this, 300 Ft-lbs at the wheels was BEYOND easy and we're blowing those tuning boxes out of the water, big time! : )

And all of a sudden I have a new question! Did you recalibrate the timing of mpi-dis? So, when my engine is running with port injection (before and after the stage 1)?I just want to know, you know why...

 

[_Blade)]

Will using launch control in the mk7 help this? I'm assuming that the ECU works in conjunction with the car's drivetrain to deliver the most effective power? I'm guessing that the APR software still does this?

The system that prevents wheel slip for all cars is ESP/ESC or whatever names manufactures give it these days. The principle of working is the same. By using the ABS sensor measurements the car's computer detects which wheel spins faster than the other (aka slipping) and applies brake on that faster spinning wheel to match the speed of the other. If both wheels slip, the system will apply brake on both wheels up to a complete stop if necessary. I tested it on ice surfaces and it works just like that. That is why you will disable this system through your infotainment system when you want to launch the car. You don't want to waste power.

GTI on the other hand has an ace up it's sleeve. An electronic differential (XDS). It works like a mini clutch and will divert power to the wheel with the most traction. Even so, if you run out of grip both your wheels will start slipping and ESC/ESP will intervene to brake (if you forgot to deactivate it that is )

When you launch the car the center of gravity moves further to the back which in turn cause less down force on your front wheels which equals less grip, which unfortunately increases the change of wheel spin and game over for you. There is nothing that APR or any other tuner can do to work magic and defy the laws of physics.

The R has AWD and a 5th generation haldex clutch. First, all you 4 wheels pull the car, that means double the tire surface at a cost of some power loss caused by the system. Second, the haldex clutch varies power to any of the 4 wheels with the most grip. In a launch situation up to 70% of the car's power can be diverted to the back wheels.

On the MK7, regardless the model, the ESP/ESC can never be fully disabled. If the car is in motion and skids of the intended trajectory (there is also a G-sensor somewhere on the computer) the system comes alive with new safety weapons and takes over the throttle and brake keeping your car on the direction of you steering wheel. Yes, you lose power and speed, but you get to go home and tell your friends all about it. I tried and tried to blow the car off the road in a mountainous area.You just can't do that. Unbelievable what these guys have done with this new generation Golf.

 

[Pieisgood999]

Spot on. Although I read somewhere torque was limited in lower gears. I wonder if that's still the case with the tune. Gonna put some fatter tyres on mine when I increase the power to try and help the wheelspin!

 

[syphanx]

The system that prevents wheel slip for all cars is ESP/ESC or whatever names manufactures give it these days. The principle of working is the same. By using the ABS sensor measurements the car's computer detects which wheel spins faster than the other (aka slipping) and applies brake on that faster spinning wheel to match the speed of the other. If both wheels slip, the system will apply brake on both wheels up to a complete stop if necessary. I tested it on ice surfaces and it works just like that. That is why you will disable this system through your infotainment system when you want to launch the car. You don't want to waste power.

GTI on the other hand has an ace up it's sleeve. An electronic differential (XDS). It works like a mini clutch and will divert power to the wheel with the most traction. Even so, if you run out of grip both your wheels will start slipping and ESC/ESP will intervene to brake (if you forgot to deactivate it that is )

When you launch the car the center of gravity moves further to the back which in turn cause less down force on your front wheels which equals less grip, which unfortunately increases the change of wheel spin and game over for you. There is nothing that APR or any other tuner can do to work magic and defy the laws of physics.

The R has AWD and a 5th generation haldex clutch. First, all you 4 wheels pull the car, that means double the tire surface at a cost of some power loss caused by the system. Second, the haldex clutch varies power to any of the 4 wheels with the most grip. In a launch situation up to 70% of the car's power can be diverted to the back wheels.

On the MK7, regardless the model, the ESP/ESC can never be fully disabled. If the car is in motion and skids of the intended trajectory (there is also a G-sensor somewhere on the computer) the system comes alive with new safety weapons and takes over the throttle and brake keeping your car on the direction of you steering wheel. Yes, you lose power and speed, but you get to go home and tell your friends all about it. I tried and tried to blow the car off the road in a mountainous area.You just can't do that. Unbelievable what these guys have done with this new generation Golf.

Thanks for the info!!! Looks like fatter tyres for me...

 

[gtiw7]

There is nothing that APR or any other tuner can do to work magic and defy the laws of physics.

On the MK7, regardless the model, the ESP/ESC can never be fully disabled.

firstly they did some magic! here you go
Torque Management and Traction Control:

Torque management plays a big role in how the vehicle feels and performs, especially during moments of low gear, rapid acceleration. Typically front wheel drive vehicles suffer from excessive wheel spin during these moments due to the massive torque on tap from the Stage III GTX Turbocharger System. Some drivers can find themselves in situations where they are fighting against wheel spin and traction control when they are simply interested in going forward as quickly as possible. This is further compounded by the fact the factory traction control (ASR) system was designed for vehicles producing far less power and torque, resulting in overcompensated ASR interventions.

APR’s Calibration Engineers set out to perfect torque management and traction control by minimizing wheel spin as much as possible without neutering the driving experience. A multi step approach was taken to achieve appropriate control. With ASR enabled, forward movement wheel spin will trigger appropriate torque intervention levels to minimize spin without hurting forward acceleration. On top of this, the torque management system is fine tuned to deliver only as much torque as the tires can take. In normal conditions the tires will only slightly break loose under full acceleration, resulting maximum acceleration. In higher traction situations, or with ASR disabled, all of the system’s torque is directly on tap!

While the end goal is similar, APR’s torque management system differs greatly from archaic “boost-by-gear” strategies. “Boost-by-gear” strategies rely on a static limitation of boost in an effort to minimize wheel spin, but to work properly they must be dialed in for every situation. The same boost levels in different weather conditions, such as a hot summer day and a cold winter month, can produce vastly different torque levels. Since APR’s torque management system relies on the engine management’s phenomenal torque reporting abilities, it is able to adjust to every environmental situation it encounters. To achieve a targeted torque level, the ECU applies the appropriate changes to mass airflow and ignition.

for the second part you can actually fully deactivate the stability control system on the Golf R

 

[Pieisgood999]

Would you really want to though?
I read on http://www.millteksport.com/in.the.press.read.cfm?articleid=33#.U3iwKSi4PwA that the torque was limited in 1st and 2nd gears. Is that on the standard car or something Milltek did? Has APR done the same thing for drivetrain longevity?
Also, does anyone else think 1st is way too short? I guess it needs to easily work when the car's fully laden, but changing to second when trying to go fast is really slow if you wait for the revs to sync :S

 

[_Blade)]

firstly they did some magic! here you go
Torque Management and Traction Control:

Torque management plays a big role in how the vehicle feels and performs, especially during moments of low gear, rapid acceleration. Typically front wheel drive vehicles suffer from excessive wheel spin during these moments due to the massive torque on tap from the Stage III GTX Turbocharger System. Some drivers can find themselves in situations where they are fighting against wheel spin and traction control when they are simply interested in going forward as quickly as possible. This is further compounded by the fact the factory traction control (ASR) system was designed for vehicles producing far less power and torque, resulting in overcompensated ASR interventions.

APR’s Calibration Engineers set out to perfect torque management and traction control by minimizing wheel spin as much as possible without neutering the driving experience. A multi step approach was taken to achieve appropriate control. With ASR enabled, forward movement wheel spin will trigger appropriate torque intervention levels to minimize spin without hurting forward acceleration. On top of this, the torque management system is fine tuned to deliver only as much torque as the tires can take. In normal conditions the tires will only slightly break loose under full acceleration, resulting maximum acceleration. In higher traction situations, or with ASR disabled, all of the system’s torque is directly on tap!

While the end goal is similar, APR’s torque management system differs greatly from archaic “boost-by-gear” strategies. “Boost-by-gear” strategies rely on a static limitation of boost in an effort to minimize wheel spin, but to work properly they must be dialed in for every situation. The same boost levels in different weather conditions, such as a hot summer day and a cold winter month, can produce vastly different torque levels. Since APR’s torque management system relies on the engine management’s phenomenal torque reporting abilities, it is able to adjust to every environmental situation it encounters. To achieve a targeted torque level, the ECU applies the appropriate changes to mass airflow and ignition.

I totally agree with this statement. Your car with APR software will have reduced torque/power up to the point where the wheels exploit the maximum grip from the tarmac which will give you maximum acceleration for you circumstances. And this grip is dictated by the tire temp, tarmac temp, outside temp, humidity and of course down force. But my logic says that you won't get much improvement on stock tires. The center of gravity goes to the back of the car as you accelerate and stiffer suspension helps just a little. Past a certain power output you need AWD to minimize grip loses. Word out there is that for Hot Hatches anything above 250HP needs full wheel drive.(uncertain if power at the wheel or at the crank)

@Arin: do you have some 0-60 data on sock tires for FWD cars to show us by how much your software Traction Control improves acceleration?

for the second part you can actually fully deactivate the stability control system on the Golf R

Big smiles for R owners; grin faces for the insurance companies...haha

Would you really want to though?
I read on http://www.millteksport.com/in.the.press.read.cfm?articleid=33#.U3iwKSi4PwA that the torque was limited in 1st and 2nd gears. Is that on the standard car or something Milltek did?

The way i see it is that Milltek limited torque because the car could not cope with too much of it.

Also, does anyone else think 1st is way too short? I guess it needs to easily work when the car's fully laden, but changing to second when trying to go fast is really slow if you wait for the revs to sync :S

Yes 1st is kinda short, but i think that it is for the reason you already outlined. I find that to be the case between 2nd & 3rd on my car. But then again mine is a diesel and has lower shifting points.

 

[Pieisgood999]

They ony did the piggyback ecu thing with low gains. APR and Revo will almost certainly have to do that considering how much gain they're getting :S

 

[spessx]

I wish VW knew that APR is selling me more VW's than they are. I wouldn't have purchased my Mk6 if there wasn't an easy way to make it competitive with cars in its class. And now, I'm actually considering selling my paid off Mk6 because APR is getting so much power out of the Mk7's!

 

[_Blade)]

They ony did the piggyback ecu thing with low gains. APR and Revo will almost certainly have to do that considering how much gain they're getting :S

They can give you a lower tune.Building a piggyback is more expensive than a tuning map anyway. Now that APR has direct access to the ECU, they can do whatever they want with it. Piggy back era is over, although they are the only ones who won't void your warranty. You remove it and the car is like fresh from factory. No one will ever know it was there

 

[gtiw7]

The way i see it is that Milltek limited torque because the car could not cope with too much of it.

no offense but the way I see it is that you're obviously talking without understanding whats going on Milltek is purely an exhaust company and has NOTHING to do with limiting torque in certain gears. that's the ECU job

 

[Pieisgood999]

Milltek had the first working demonstrator of a piggyback ecu from (dtuk/shark performance). Was in all the papers and stuff months ago...

 

[GTA5]

256whp for a stage 1 is not bad. Wonder what the torque numbers look like, also what dyno, etc.

 

[_Blade)]

no offense but the way I see it is that you're obviously talking without understanding whats going on Milltek is purely an exhaust company and has NOTHING to do with limiting torque in certain gears. that's the ECU job

My mistake. I read Shark and wrote Milltek . I don't know what i'm talking about when it comes to who does what, because i'm not in the habit of tuning. I read forums and news just to be up to date with the technology and get an idea of what can be done on my car and maybe i will do it some day on mine.I'm not an expert so i might confuse companies sometime. Although i'm not that technically illiterate as to say that an exhaust can be configured to limit torque. .

 

[TAZZ1]

Good news the Siemens ECU can be accessed and port flashed cause I wasn't very fond of Tuning boxes TBH. Quite impressive numbers for just a stage 1.

Very shortly. We were recently in germany dialing in power for ROW market fuels (95, 98, 99, 100, 102 RON) and it went very well. We've spent sometime putting miles on the cars and our Germany operation is doing some accelerated life testing on the autobahn.

I had the pleasure myself of driving our Golf R with our software wide open for most of our trip between Ochsenhausen, to Berlin and over to Oschersleben and back.

We hit hither than this, but it got a little scary so we backed off and kept it around 260 most of the way. We punished the R on that trip. : )

Arin, do you have any news / visibility on the Mk7 Golf R stage 1 performance figures? What was this particular R fitted with, and how did it run?