Heat problems on track: TECH. Read before adding an oil cooler!

[Track R]

That one uses the same set up as the TCR, well duh.. just read above, it's an RS3 TCR, vents are located too far forward for the OEM location intercooler/radiator set up. While the pic below is an S3, the set up is the same.

View attachment 284909

I'm full aware of the TCR induction system I was giving someone the option if they wanted to try these.

 

[Autobahn]

on my car I no longer have oil temp issues. with the Iabed cooler they stay solidly in the 250°f range. The issue now is high IATs pulling all timing leading to power loss and potential damage.

The turbo intake pipe gets really hot on track in my Golf R so wrapped it with some gold heat tape.

 

[ironicbadger]

I bought the hood because i've always wanted a cool looking carbon hood. I knew off the bat the vents wouldnt be perfect, but i figured they would at least do something. Obviously, that appears to not be the case. Moving forward i will probably source a stock hood and do the race louvers on it. Worked really well on my foxbody. Going to see if @DerHase will let me borrow his hood for a session before i commit.

This is r&d LOL

 

[DerHase]

Busy and @Redslaya has the data, but even with my newly vented hood his car had almost no notable changes. At this point we've ruled out air exit venting as being the issue, and now looking to the oil cooler, and radiator ducting etc.

Some point soon we'll be pulling the bumper and checking things out further.

 

[DerHase]

Follow up with the data...

OEM airbox, with my newly vented stock hood as pictured above (which based on my own logs has shown a marked improvement in all temps).

Cruising:

This was the entire ~20min log, somewhere in there were a few WOT pulls (granted not FULL 3rd gear pulls), but regardless you can see the IATs never got lower than 111F, highest ambient was 87F, so 24F over ambient. Better than with the other hoods, but not considerably so.

Hoping to get to the bottom of this somewhat soon. Next step is to remove the oil cooler to eliminate that as a variable (plus visually inspect to make sure nothing is missing from around the radiator from when it was installed).

 

[DerHase]

So tonight @Redslaya came over and we finally got some resolution on his excessive IAT problems.

We started by pulling the bumper and installing a TON of aluminum HVAC sealing tape around the edges of the radiator/intercooler/etc. We also fixed one of the flappy bits that was kind of bent outwards on the driver side. We did this pre-emptively and in an attempt to save time and having to test 4 times vs 3 times. Sealing the cores will absolutely be beneficial with no downside, though we had doubts that it was the true cause.

So then we taped some cardboard covers over the front and back of his oil cooler. The idea is to just not allow air to pass through the cooler, getting heated up, and then flowing into the intercooler behind it. Not a permanent solution, but a quick and dirty test to verify if IC temps improve to "normal".

Attached are some photos of the process... Also just realized I never got any great pics of ALL the aluminum tape applied. It was down at the top and sides as well as the bottom as viewed from the front. We also sealed the radiator from the top on the back side below the stock airbox piece. You can see the gap in one of the attached photos that was covered up afterwards. @Redslaya might be able to get some photos as left.

 

[DerHase]

As for the DATA... Here's were the results from a ~20 min round trip with the cooler completely BLOCKED off:

Highway pull IATs down to within 12F or so of ambient


Highway steady cruising (A/C off to clarify) - IATs stable between 15-20F above ambient


Another highway pull: IATs down to within 10F of ambient



So obviously something we did helped. Now was time to pull the CAD designed block-off plates (Cardboard Aided Design) and re-test again.

With the oil cooler UNBLOCKED:

35 to almost 40F over ambient IATs steady state highway cruising. Again this is A/C OFF.


Highway pull - a bit over 25F over ambient


Another highway pull - IATs were just shy of 30F over ambient.




So we've finally figured out that the oil cooler is the problem (placement, size, etc). Obviously a bunch of people run them, and many people run them in this very same location (including Area Motorsports). I do think that being located on the passenger side is less than ideal because that is the cold side of the intercooler - if that side gets heated by hot air from the oil cooler, it's got no chance of ever coming back down.

Mounting on the driver side would still allow a better delta-T if the pass side stays cooler, but realistically the correct option is to duct the existing cooler down and under the car or relocate the oil cooler somewhere else which is very tough on a DSG R. Venting downwards isn't great for aerodynamics, but it is probably the lesser of two evils when there are coolers occupying both fenders already. Also mounting on the driver side would definitely screw with the ambient temp readings, and I suspect would likely give false "good" results (will look like IATs dropped by say 10F, when in reality the AAT went "up" by 10F), though the AAT could be relocated without too much fab work.

Also it is worth noting that oil temps indicated on dash with the cooler UNblocked, were stable 185-190F the entire time. When the oil is closer to 250-270F entering the cooler on track at VIR... it is throwing a LOT more heat into the intercooler. I can see why people might not see any "problems" on the street and then without running data think everything is fine on track.

 

[Track R]

 

[krs]

As for the DATA... Here's were the results from a ~20 min round trip with the cooler completely BLOCKED off:

Highway pull IATs down to within 12F or so of ambient
View attachment 285378

Highway steady cruising (A/C off to clarify) - IATs stable between 15-20F above ambient
View attachment 285379

Another highway pull: IATs down to within 10F of ambient
View attachment 285374


So obviously something we did helped. Now was time to pull the CAD designed block-off plates (Cardboard Aided Design) and re-test again.

With the oil cooler UNBLOCKED:

35 to almost 40F over ambient IATs steady state highway cruising. Again this is A/C OFF.
View attachment 285375

Highway pull - a bit over 25F over ambient
View attachment 285376

Another highway pull - IATs were just shy of 30F over ambient.
View attachment 285377



So we've finally figured out that the oil cooler is the problem (placement, size, etc). Obviously a bunch of people run them, and many people run them in this very same location (including Area Motorsports). I do think that being located on the passenger side is less than ideal because that is the cold side of the intercooler - if that side gets heated by hot air from the oil cooler, it's got no chance of ever coming back down.

Mounting on the driver side would still allow a better delta-T if the pass side stays cooler, but realistically the correct option is to duct the existing cooler down and under the car or relocate the oil cooler somewhere else which is very tough on a DSG R. Venting downwards isn't great for aerodynamics, but it is probably the lesser of two evils when there are coolers occupying both fenders already.

Also it is worth noting that oil temps indicated on dash with the cooler UNblocked, were stable 185-190F the entire time. When the oil is closer to 250-270F entering the cooler on track at VIR... it is throwing a LOT more heat into the intercooler. I can see why people might not see any "problems" on the street and then without running data think everything is fine on track.

So you’re saying, that if something hot is placed in front of the intercooler, that hot thing transfers the radiant heat to the intercooler? Imagine that.

I’m not knocking your data collection, it’s very interesting to follow.

 

[DerHase]

So you’re saying, that if something hot is placed in front of the intercooler, that hot thing transfers the radiant heat to the intercooler? Imagine that.

I’m not knocking your data collection, it’s very interesting to follow.

I mean it's kind of obvious, but the thing is out of ALL the oil coolers installed from the 400+ reply oil cooler thread, ALL the people who install this very same oil cooler even when they're not tracking the car, nobody has done any kind of real data collection to see this glaringly obvious issue. When it comes to track stuff for the MK7 most stuff is either complete garbage or at best requires significant modification to be worthwhile.

I'd have expected a 10F maybe 15F difference personally and consider that acceptable, but we're talking a 25F increase over what is typical of this tune/IC.

We'd have come to this conclusion far sooner if we were logging his car from the very beginning pre-radiators and all, but given how many people run these oil coolers/radiators/ICs with non-issue, we were kind of grasping at straws to explain why this one car has such terrible temps.

We just got a great sample from a S1 EQT Golf R on an IE V2 IC that is otherwise bone stock, and it's within 20F of ambient average on track. This car in question is 125% higher IAT delta under near identical conditions, on the same track. 20 vs 55F average.

It's a 15F difference on the street which isn't completely awful, but from tuning myself that is worth roughly 10-12hp or so. Not insignificant. We didn't do any ridiculously long drives but it seemed to be getting worse as time went on.


With all the above factored in, to make matters worse, the oil cooler is supposed to help on track, when in reality it performs worse and worse as you actually track the car.

We need to redo testing of the Seibon hood open vs closed, but with preliminary testing after today's discovery it appears it performs better closed than open still. (@Redslaya removed the hood rain guards on his drive home to monitor, but did not record since it wasn't on the "control" test route).

 

[tigeo]

Great work getting to the bottom of it finally. Too bad the oil cooler can't be mounted off to the side where the aux rad is. On my GSW with no aux coolers running an oil cooler over in that space should be no issue and I'd think would be helpful...or just add a Race Louver instead .

 

[Redslaya]

Great work getting to the bottom of it finally. Too bad the oil cooler can't be mounted off to the side where the aux rad is. On my GSW with no aux coolers running an oil cooler over in that space should be no issue and I'd think would be helpful...or just add a Race Louver instead .

View attachment 285394

It is a possiblity to put it behind one of the aux coolers, however space is an issue there. Two options include removing the aux radiator, placing it there, and hoping that doesnt affect engine coolant temps or ducting behind the coil cooler to evacuate the hot air under the car. I think im going to try the latter first.

 

[tigeo]

It is a possiblity to put it behind one of the aux coolers, however space is an issue there. Two options include removing the aux radiator, placing it there, and hoping that doesnt affect engine coolant temps or ducting behind the coil cooler to evacuate the hot air under the car. I think im going to try the latter first.

Looking at the pics there is quite a gap behind it.

 

[DerHase]

Looking at the pics there is quite a gap behind it.

Yep. And we proved by just blocking the cooler with cardboard that it still is getting some flow/sufficient flow overall for IATs to be right where they should be. (this also means that there's probably not as much flow through the oil cooler as there should be).

Should be enough room for a duct downwards, while still having some space for air (that doesn't go through the oil cooler duct) to be forced over that way through the IC/rad just due to the pressure on the front end.

 

[tigeo]